A Q&A with Sten van der Heijden
Welcome! Let’s start with a brief introduction. Who are you and can you briefly tell us what your company does?
Sure. I am Sten, I am 23 years old and I live in Houten. A friend of mine started his own HR consultancy firm with HBO students 1,5 years ago and he approached me at the time. At that time I was studying HR with a minor in consultancy, but I didn’t really know what I wanted to do with it. Entrepreneurship seemed really cool, so I just jumped in.
We started very broadly with HR consulting, but we noticed that there is a lot of interest in tools and advice around Gen Z. Every organization is hitting on it. That’s why we changed our name to “Bloom” three and a half weeks ago and are now really focusing on advice around Gen Z.
The topic is really a trend right now, and we are the generation ourselves, so organizations are really taking things from us. We offer our clients a Generation scan. That involves researching the current Gen Z population in their organization. How do Gen Z’ers feel about working for them, what could be better, what are they missing? We also do our own research and use that input to see if there are things within the employee journey that you as an organization can adjust so that it can become even more interesting for Gen Z. Ultimately, we come up with concrete advice that can touch on different topics such as leadership or the development offerings within the organization.
We also offer workshops. These include topics such as “how to deal with job hopping,” “what are the needs of Gen Z,” or “how can you Gen Z-proof your organization.
Cool! So you indicate that Gen Z is really a trend right now and that organizations would like to know who they are and what they are coming to do. Can you take me through what you think is the biggest difference between Gen Z and the other generations? And what does this mean for their work ethic?
Yes, one of the biggest differences between Gen Z and the other generations is the work-life balance piece and therefore the organization of work. Gen Z just looks at that very differently.
Gen Z feels very clearly that work is something that should make them smarter and better. So not working just to make money, but rather to be able to develop.
So in addition, they look at the arrangement of work differently. If you work 40 hours, you work 40 hours. In the past, overtime, for example, was quite normal, or if you finished work earlier you still stayed in the office. Then you could have a chat with colleagues and at 5 p.m. you didn’t go out the door. Gen Z thinks “I finished my work, I finished it in 36 hours, then I can just go home earlier.” Another example of rearranging work is when you work out for, say, 2 hours in the morning and then work 2 hours longer in the evening.
I think that may be where there’s friction with older generations, that they think, “Gen Z is lazy,” when it’s just a different view of how you allocate work and personal time.
So I hear you say that the biggest differences are in work-life balance and especially in “how do you organize your work” and also that Gen Z wants to be able to develop at work. That development at work; how does that manifest itself?
I think Gen Z needs challenge. And when that is lacking or they feel that work becomes monotonous or there is no future perspective – or companies do not communicate this transparently – they will look further afield.
So when someone might enter lower in a particular position but it is clearly communicated that someone can advance to a particular position within a year – then it’s fine too?
Yes what you say. So do communicate clearly and concretely what they are going to do within the next year and not keep it vague. You also sometimes see that something is not communicated concretely so that a Gen Z’er thinks he can grow within a year, but the manager rather had 3 years in his head. Yes then they are gone after a year.
Another thing to note when talking about development is that it shouldn’t be a “one size fits all” approach. It’s really person-dependent. So no more “we have 1 development program and we throw it into the organization and everyone is going to take those courses”, but Gen Z’ers really want to be in the lead of their own development and be able to make their own choices. What do I want, what don’t I want and how do I work toward that?
Clear, so clear expectations and a person-centered approach. In addition, you’ve obviously read through our article. In it, we refer to an article that indicates that the generation gap has never been scientifically proven and therefore we recommend focusing more on connection and similarities between generations instead of looking at the differences. What do you – as a Gen Z specialist – think about that?
I don’t think we really focus on the differences, we also look for that connection. So that generations within an organization can work together. However, this requires a certain change in mentality. Both the “older” generation must want to understand certain things and discuss them, and the younger generation must also adapt. It shouldn’t just be about Gen Z, it has to come closer together. So I do agree with that.
You also mention in the article that it’s more about difference in life stage or a period difference rather than a generational difference. I also largely agree with that, but it’s also true that Gen Z is entering the job market now and so they are all in a certain stage of life and development, so you have to deal with it.
I agree. Whether work changes because a new generation enters the labor market or because the organization of work itself changes due to the current spirit of the times, you have to deal with it. You just indicated that generations must come closer together and that the mindset of the older generations must change. Conversely, what can Gen Z learn from the older generations?
Yes, I find that difficult to say. On the one hand, you could say that they can be a little more patient and they can stay in their place for a while to wait for internal opportunities and then move on. On the other hand, a very big difference right now is that Gen Z has much more choice in the job market than “older” generations had. There is so much job choice and you get continuous messages through LinkedIn. Gen Z knows their value and they know that as soon as they don’t like it somewhere, they can move right on. And that’s something I think, “Can you prove them wrong about that?
Because do you also see a negative side to how Gen Z approaches work?
I think it’s a good development that Gen Z sees work as something in which you need to advance. That means that as a society we are also moving forward. You also see that never before have so many young people worked as they do now, so that also says something. What you could ask is how far can this flexibility go? So it may be that you want to play sports in the morning, but of course it must remain within certain frameworks. It can’t be that you exercise all morning and aren’t available again until the evening. It has to remain in balance.
Yes, maintaining a good balance and of course it should also fit within your work. Agreed, so Gen Z does seem to value different things than the other generations. However, in the article we refer to, they argue that it doesn’t make much sense to apply other ways of recruiting to attract Gen Z’ers. What do you think about that?
I think organizations do have to adapt. The job market is so tight, actually what I just mentioned as well. Gen Z has so much choice, so you really have to be able to differentiate and respond as an organization. For example, we at Rvdb just started TikTok. Those are just new channels and developments that you have to respond to, because the new generation can be found on those platforms. This is very different from the past, because you recruit with images instead of text. Besides, it costs nothing, so why not use that. In that, for example, you can also get “on top of mind” with humor and more creative content. I think there are always trends you have to go along with.
Exactly. Whether you’re talking about generational differences, period differences or age differences, I think we agree that work and the design of work is changing and work-life balance and flexibility are becoming more and more important. Obviously you don’t have to give all your advice here for free and for nothing, but what would you advise organizations when it comes to dealing with the new generation at work and this new way of working?
I would start with the “low-hanging fruit” anyway. And then especially look at transparency towards the Gen Z’ers. So be transparent from the beginning to the end in basically everything you do. So that means being transparent about salary, for example. Many organizations say they give a “market salary. I find that such a catch-all term that drives me crazy. Because do you expect a competitive performance? No, be transparent about that and be transparent about the salary steps someone can make. In addition, be transparent in the development offer and make it personal. For example, what is the personal development budget, where can you spend it and make sure your employee is in the lead to use that budget.
Other themes that Gen Z’ers find important include diversity, inclusion and sustainability. You sometimes see organizations shouting this very loudly to the outside world (and being “transparent” about it), but it has not actually been implemented in the organization at all. So when an organization shouts very loudly that they are diverse and a Gen Z’er comes in and only sees white men in their 50s – they are gone. Research also really shows that when you pretend to be better than you are, new employees are gone in no time.
So in addition, flexibility and work-life balance is very important. One concrete example would be unlimited vacation days, which more and more organizations are offering. This requires trust between organization and employee, but it would make Gen Z very happy. Or at one of our clients they are researching a 4-day work week. This does not mean less hard work, no, in fact you have to work much more and chat less so you can finish your work in 4 days.
When you talk about flexibility, you can also look at someone’s job duties. I think that in the future there will be much more focus on “what does someone like to do and what is someone good at”? And that you will then no longer have 1 position, but different tasks that you as an employee can put together yourself (in consultation with the manager). For example, you could have a marketing person who also likes to work with numbers and does some finance. Or a recruiter who does a bit of marketing. Much more person-dependent, then.
So much more on separate tasks/roles instead of 1 permanent position in which the basic tasks should at least be distributed?
Yes, that’s also called job crafting. So that you start working with your employee to see what suits someone and what someone is good at. And this is obviously no longer low-hanging fruit, but a big change. I do really think this is something that’s going to happen in the future.
By the way, what you also see in addition is, for example, a “workation” – that is, remote working. Employees who can work from Valencia, for example. You can also look at that, of course. There are a lot of possibilities.
What does this shift to greater flexibility require of organizations? What do you think they need for that?
Clarifying what you expect from someone, but it also requires different leadership, for example. That you really start the conversation with each other at the beginning and end of the week of “what are you going to do”. And it also requires trust on the part of the employer, so you also have to be able to let go of it; it doesn’t work if you’re constantly sitting on someone’s lap. Of course this is not 1, 2, 3 introduced, you really have to do some good research within your own organization as to what is needed for that. You haven’t done that overnight, of course. But I do notice that customers are picking up on it and working on it.
Thank you so much for your input and time. By the sound of it, there is a lot of work ahead of you!
I hope so and I am really confident about it. I also really enjoy working on it and learning more and more about it. And of course I also recognize a lot of it because I fall into the generation myself, so that’s why I think it’s even more valuable.